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 On playable and Monster Races

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Kiri-Jolith
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PostSubject: On playable and Monster Races   Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:24 pm

The module will launch with 31 races. Some of these, mostly the dwarves and elves, are just clan differences with minute changes to the default dwarf/elf races. However, there are monster races, such as draconians, ogres, irda, etc. Instead of using ECLs, which increase your effective character level which modifies the xp you recieve, we'll be using Monster Classes instead. Monster Classes take a class slot, and grant the monster abilities as the MC level increases. These monster classes aren't required to be able to play a Monster Class race, just use their abilities. i.e: An Aurak Draconian with no Monster Class levels is the equivalent to a new born Aurak, whereas an Aurak having 10 levels in their Monster Class would be the equivalent to Elder Aurak draconian.
Monster Classes constitute that races Favored Class, otherwise there is no sort of XP modification for playing a Monster Race.


All questions/comments are welcome.
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:31 am

Well that's a neat way to do it.
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:27 pm

So are you changing the way the current system works ?

It is a different aproach on it that I dont think I have seen thus far.

Would thier current stats and or abilites change in anyway aside from being more spread out per level gained ?

Would make for more thought out class combo's as well as pure Monster race possibilities .

But depending on how it was done per Monster Stats, feats and abilities would matter, dont want to weaken the Monster races by restricting them to only 2 other classes or not reward them for going pure Monster class... Much like a pure Mage ,Cleric gets to help maintain the balance.

As far as the Ecl.. Hey I see it as part of the blood sweat and tears of the choosing a Monster race keeping some away from playing them all together because of the challange.

I'm currently playing a Ogre with as you know a Ecl of "6" and I am getting on average only 4 Xp per kill (Bosses excluded) I may pout and moan about it a bit but its worth it when you see your Monster develope when most others have given up .

But to draw a honest opinion on it I would have to see a example of a Monster class layout .


You local angery Ogre Gurlock affraid **I ']['hrash you's**
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:30 pm

Kiri I think we talked about it before.
The Monster Class race, will there be a max level? or will the level max out the last lvl they get abilities bonuses?


Exp:

Aurak - 12 lvl
Baaz - 3
Bozak - 7
Kapak - 4
Sivak - 10

Flame - 11
Frost - 4
Lighting - 11
Vapor - 7
Venom - 4

I got the lvl numbers from

http://www.dlnexus.com/fan/rules

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Kiri-Jolith
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:08 pm

The link Will posted is a good example of it will work.

You can potentially take 40 levels of your monster class if you so chose. There would be epic racial feats to choose from, as well as increases in your abilities (SR, BW Dmg, Nat armor, etc.)
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:09 pm

Cool

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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:02 am

I'll be honest I'm pouting a bit with the two classes only, but on the other hand the aproach you are thinking may be interesting as well i'll be sure to be fair and honest with my responces and not letting my love for the current direction of the angery Ogre is going to sway me.

I'll keep my eye's open for updates about this.

One question would the current in game Pc Monster classes get a delevel down offered to implement the changes or a valt whipe would happen ?

How would the change over happen for this would effect the current Pc Im using and would like to know how its going to be handled so I dont have a fit later after spending time on him then to only lose him and all the wasted effort to develop him as well ?

And I looked under that site I seen a lot of Half Ogre's and didn't notice any Ogre's if you have seen a posting on it please drop its title so I can go back and read up on it so I can start thinking of a direction based on that information.


Thank you : Local angery Ogre Gurlock affraid **I ']['hrash you's**
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:28 pm

Kiri is it possible to have the Monster Class race has a starter class like your idea about the Knight.

Exp like when I remake Tylor i can pick Sivak class at the char creation beganing?

I beleive if it is possible it should be a requirement to be that type of race you what to be

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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:28 pm

On the draconians. The beta of the module will only include 2 draconian races. One evil draconian race, and one noble draconian race. I'll let you pick them, since you're the resident draconian expert. As I move further with the module, I will add the rest, but the beta is a "proof of concept" sort of module, so it will be just bare bones and the basics. As it stands, the beta won't include the KoS/WoHS prcs, but I -need- a beta to test badly before the whole thing gets too huge to work with.

If the racial PrCs work fine, then I have the framework for the others, as the racial classes are more complicated than the other PrCs. But if it all works like its suppossed to, it's gonna be sooo sweet.... Oh yeah, if you could, will, find me some draconian sort of icons I can use for the racial feats. I'll start with what I have on hand, but they can be changed at will... =p
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:40 am

I say go with a Sivak and Lighting Draconian first, If I rember correctly most of the Nation were these two.


I will keep my eyes open for Icons

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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:17 am

Kiri I have idea about playable monster race. I know alot of people would not like this idea but what the heck. It kinda goes with the theme of Dragonlance.

Make it that if you play a Monster Race that char only has one class its race. It would be diferrent but this is a rp server and I beleive you would make the race class just has good has being a 3 class char.

If you want to try something like this in the Beta testing Tylor would be happy to be your guinea pig.

Most likely when a player creates a radical char with one class they will at least be versed in dragonlance lore, and can play the char appropriately. (Kiri I stoled part of your posting)

To be honest a Monster race should be like the race. How many rogue/monk/shadowdancer Minotuars are there?

Draconains were pretty designed to follow classes somewhat (Sivak -fig, Aurak - wiz/soc, etc) so they maybe easier to make one class.

Now for the other races, I beleive Ogres were either figthers or Shamans (Cleric), Minotuars Fig or Barbains, Clerics, etc If it is possible when creating a monster race that has clerics or wizard, etc they can pick that type of monster race class, for exp. Someone wants to play a Ogre they would have the pick of playing Orge fighter or Ogre Shaman.

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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:32 pm

Do what you wish... No point in bothering at the moment if no pc's are going to make the cross over I'll hop in and out of the froums to see if any progress has been made server wise really no point in wasting time with a Pc that is going to be deleted anyways no wounder the server is empty.

So I'll see you when the server is up and running ... any idea how that that will be around a 1/2 to a year ?
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:49 pm

Twisted Visions wrote:
Do what you wish... No point in bothering at the moment if no pc's are going to make the cross over I'll hop in and out of the froums to see if any progress has been made server wise really no point in wasting time with a Pc that is going to be deleted anyways no wounder the server is empty.

So I'll see you when the server is up and running ... any idea how that that will be around a 1/2 to a year ?


mmmm. Not quite mate. While beta testing, no pc's will cross over, no. When the module I'm working on goes live, then I will get a copy of the server vault from Storm, take the accounts that have been active for the past 6 months, and will contact them via the forum so they can choose which one of their chars they want to cross over and manually make the proper adjustments, and put the proper entries into the databases.

AND, I need you to check on the forums and hit the in-game, as I still need alot of input..... do you really wanna leave the module to vision of just Will and I? =p
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:42 pm

I had asked you the cross over question, It was to my understanding that you were not going to allow a cross over in other words the pc's and thier current levels. Of course some couldnt be crossed over due to changes but could be turned over and remade. Seems I am wrong then. That I am glad to hear VERY actually . My apologies then for the misunderstanding.

Loacal Angery Ogre affraid
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:49 pm

(Will of Lett) I agree with your coments about the Ogre class having a limit to what classes they would Ic actually Take.

For example they may have the following perhaps:

1). Barbarian

2). Fighter

3). Cleric

4). Ranger

5). Weapons master

6). Red Dragon Disciple ( But in this case would be over powering. be very very rare if at all allowed) from some sort of breeding thing done by a mage of sorts. but this class really is cut out of a lot of servers. In defence to the classs there are Dracoian's subraces that are very close to this classes set up at the moment.

The rest of the classes just dont really seem to fit, Some because of race others from the fact that the Ogre is required to be Evil.

As far as Ogres being one Class only Fighter / Cleric exc...I would say no and frown on it for the following reasons to name just a few:

1). Limits the Monster race. If there were a Horde faction to open up lets say of ogres, well there would be 10-15 or better of just one class of Ogres thus making the race weak.

2). I think Kiri's Idea of making the Monster race count as a class then leaving only 2 Class slots open if one even chooses to use it a very good idea just by making the Moster race a class balances out and limits combo options. I think that system would work well for all none base races, (Base races :Human,Elf,Orc,Dwarf,Half-elf,Gnome,Halfling) seeing as tho any one Monster/subrace has good extra bonuses and there are a few exceptions to this such as a tinkering Gnome for example that have little to offer but mild improvements and really dont do much unless Kiri adds to those classes as well .

3). Not to mention IMO would take the creativity out of some of the Monster classes. As well as the fun of it.


Local angery Ogre affraid ~I thrash you's~
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:19 am

I would have to agree woth you Twisted, Thinking about, it is true if we limit the monster class just to one class would hurt creativetiy of the player with their char plus people will not play them.

I agree with Twisted that all monster race class should have class restirictions. What you listed (Twisted) fits alot of Monster and it also doesnt limit the player. I noticed you didnt list Rogue in your list, is it you just forgot or it doesnt fit a Ogre, they are just to large to pick a lock, etc?

I was looking thru the dragonlance Nexus what is Mystic class? the reason why I ask in one section it is the favorite class of the Frost and one of favorite classes for Bozak Draconians (They have four favorite classes). Nevermind I found what it is

I beleive the following classes would be not allow for the draconains race. I dont think the are draconian race classes
Bard, Druid, monk, Shadowdancers, Champion of Torm, pale masters and any class not allowed by the server plus Arcane Archer (due to the fact the draconian based model is based on the Half-Elf).

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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:48 am

Will of Lett wrote:
I agree with Twisted that all monster race class should have class restirictions. What you listed (Twisted) fits alot of Monster and it also doesnt limit the player. I noticed you didnt list Rogue in your list, is it you just forgot or it doesnt fit a Ogre, they are just to large to pick a lock, etc?

To answer your question about the rogue class in reguards to the Ogre, Yes if they cannot use small weapons and due to thier size and negitives to thier hide and ability to move quietly and the fact they are about half the size of a small village home I would find it hard to have a Ogre rogue not to mention it would be rather funny watching a Ogre trying to pick pocket someone Razz .

In responce to you conments on the Dragonians my lore on them is weak but I think that some of the restrictions can be alingment based as well?


For example:

Noble Dragonian's class restrictions could be:

1). Rogue ( Dont think too many Noble Drag's or Knights would follow in this path )

2). Barbarian ( Thier wild side and as well as thier unorganized way of doing things may not fit more so for knights but perhaps both )

3). Druid

4). Assassin's ( Again being good and or a Draconian knight wouldnt fit the class )

5). Blackguard (Same as above)

6). Dwarven Defender (No need to explain there)

7). Palemaster ( Dosent fit witht the alingment )

Cool. Shadow dancer ( Thier tactic's and how they go about doing things dont fall in thier alingment and wouldn't fit the noble Knight as well )

9). Arcane Archer

Now the possable restrictions for the Evil Dragonians :

1). Druid

2). Paladin

3). Champion of torm

4). Dwarven Defender

5). Harper scout

6) Arcane Archer

Now the classes that are playable could be spead out between the Dragonian subraces for each group or just be playable all around thats another topic in itself.
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:47 pm

The class restircition I posted would be for all draconains. Of course there are class that Good and Evil couldnt take due to aliment and race. According to the Dragonlance Nexus the following list is the favorite class for each draconian

Aurak - Sorcerer
Baaz - Fighter
Bozak - Cleric, Sorcerer,Mystic or Wizard but after 11 lvl
Kapak - Rogue
Sivak - Fighter

Flame - Barbarian
Frost - Fighter
Lighting - Paladin
Vapor - Mystic
Venom - Rogue

Also should be noted not all evil draconians are evil.

Most of the Evil Draconians in Teyr have become generally NE likewise with Nobles have become NG.

When I first started Tylor he was Lawful Evil but over the years thru RPing he become Neutrel Evil.

Many of the "Evil Draconains" born in Teyr are neutrel leading toward NG.

When we started the Nation we try to keep it close to the books.

The name Noble Draconian only means Good Draconain

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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:53 pm

So would the current postings above be the Draconian class restrictions based on Race of Draconian ?

I was going on the Discription as far as the Dragonians' go with alingment it says Good Noble and Evil no mention of Neuteral in the pc creation unless it is changed ? So thats what My above post was going off of.
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:06 pm

When you create a draconian on the server you can be any aliment per say.

If you what to play a Evil Draco you can have any alingment that is Evil (LE,CE,NE)

Noble Dracos has to be in the Good alingment (LG, CG, NG)

So say you what to play a Aurak your race at the creation screen would be Half-elf with some kind of a Evil Alingment. The alingmenet you pick at the char creation will not change until you change it in the game thru your actions DM, team, beggars etc.

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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:29 pm

Ok it is what I thought it was. thanks for clearing that up.

Humm would the In game alingment change create being able to use as a exploit to gain classes the other wise wouldnt be allowed and if so would that be ok ?
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:46 pm

mmmm. Normally, no. Chaning align to exploit isn't encouraged, but I think you can only shift in one direction. Don't quote me on that.
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:41 am

Update: It's been decided that any monster race with an ecl of 3 or greater will have its own monster class. What this means is:

Monster races with an ECL of 3 or Greater will have to sacrifice one of their class slots to gain their Monster Abilities, though their Monster Class will count as their favored class and they will not suffer any XP penalty from taking it.

Monsters races with an ECL of 2 or less will receive their bonuses at level 1, and as they level up, though they WILL gain XP as a character of a level of Class Levels + ECL.
i.e: A PC with an ECL of 2, who's a level 3 fighter will have an Effect Character Level of 5.
ECL Characters, will however, be counted as their ECL for all other purposes. i.e: Item Level Restrictions, Quest Availability, Party Average Level, and when determining XP awarded. So an ECL character, using the above example, would be able to Party with other Level 5 Characters with no penalty, Have access to Level 5 Quests & Items (even though is only level 3), as well as gaining full XP from an npc creature kill with an equivalent Challenge Rating.

This is the most balanced, fair way of doing things while staying true to the setting. It balances the abilities attributed to powerful monster races with possible class combinations, while still allowing for weaker monster races to have full class/ability access, but not without price.

Let me know what you think.



Note: A list of Races and their ECLs, if any, can be found Here.
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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:15 am

Sounds good to me

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PostSubject: Re: On playable and Monster Races   Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:54 am

This sounds fair to me. I'm still trying to figure out where all our players have migrated off to.
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